Return to Home Page
The Soundboard Forum Index The Soundboard
SMI-sponsored instrument forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

New Horn Trials

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Soundboard Forum Index -> Welcome to Trumpet Corner!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
billybob



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: New Horn Trials Reply with quote

Over the holidays I got my local dealer to lend me a 180s-43, ml bore. Wow. I truly had no idea what a difference this would make to my sound. Starting on the lead pipe, the sound was much more solid and resonant than I'm used to. It just kind of burst forth in a loud, ducky call of the wild. Then, playing conservatively at first, everything I tried sounded so solid, focused, resonant, etc., etc. The tuning on it is fantastic. Instead of moving my third valve slide out an inch and a half for Db, it was more like a quarter inch! Playing was a real joy. But that was day 1. Then things quickly went down hill. Day 2 my tone would fuzz out at the top of the middle register, my articulations were latent, and the upper register would disappear with a grunt and a puff of air. Back to basics. Day 3 I just did lots of long tones, lots of listening, lots of scales, mostly in the low and mid register. Day 4, lots of Colins. It felt like the Bach was much less forgiving than my old horn. I had to be very precise, very centered. Any deviation and the sound would disappear. However, today, day 5, my playing is back to normal, except that I have this amazing Bach sound and an ease in my playing that I've never had before. Time to write a check.

I do have a question for you though, Dr. Sievers. Is it normal to go through such a long period of readjustment when moving to a new horn? It can be quite frustrating, and at at times I though about giving up. I don't know what the bore size of my old horn is, but I think it may be a bit larger then the 43's. Perhaps that is enough to throw me off for a few days?
_________________
Roy S. Bedlam Brass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ksievers
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2481

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say it is not necessarily normal, but in your case the difference of the "blow" of this horn compared to your old one is significant, and your body has to get used to it (intuitively).

the only caveat I have is that we tend to be way oversensitive to the hardware when change is involved; what I call "playing reactively." same with a new mouthpiece or any modification. Our minds zero in on "what's different" instead of creating... so, at that moment we are no longer in the "creative" mode and our system is not in a cooperative state. In this state we toss it out there and "see what happens" instead of "ordering the result" as Jacobs might say. I imagine that factors into this situation too.

We want to (ideally) get to the point where we are not aware of the horn in our hands - our awareness is only imagination and sound and music, no technical thoughts, no awareness of hardware.

But you did the right thing - no panic, get back to that very short list of where you head should be: that fantastic resonant tone with the air fueling it. Nothing else belongs on that list.... nothing. When we get to that point, if you have a decent instrument, all starts to really take off. So you knew what to do and you did it. That is very significant.

enjoy -
_________________
Karl Sievers, DMA. Professor, School of Music, University of Oklahoma; Principal Trumpet, Oklahoma City Philharmonic; Bach Artist/Clinician; General Manager, National Trumpet Competition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sskibbey
Expert Contributor


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently got a new Bach as well (a great one!!) and made a discovery pretty quickly. Instead of "playing the horn" and seeing what all of the differences were from my old horn, I started to just play music Concentrating on playing music the way that I know I am supposed to, and focusing on the sound that I imagined...This took my mind off of the horn and into the sound/music. THEN I was able to tell a big difference in the sound produced by the new horn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ksievers
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2481

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep.
_________________
Karl Sievers, DMA. Professor, School of Music, University of Oklahoma; Principal Trumpet, Oklahoma City Philharmonic; Bach Artist/Clinician; General Manager, National Trumpet Competition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
billybob



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I learn nothing else from you and the rest of the form Dr. Sievers, I know I'll be ok: Trumpet playing is all about mind, creativity, and imagination. One of these days I'll manage to let go of the rest. :)
_________________
Roy S. Bedlam Brass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
t.whitcombe@comcast.net



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Sterling, IL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: and j Reply with quote

Neither hardware nor software changes for me, but I just came down from about a 2 month period when I was pretty sick with acute bronchitis. I managed to play through all that, and just as I was getting to feel pretty well I picked up the horn for my afternoon workout and couldn't play at all. The morning session had been fine, but now I was completely gone. Since thenI've been working the fundamentals, doing a little schlosberg and just trying to get centered again on the horn. This morning I went back to my usual AM routine and it's coming along pretty well. I'm trying to concentrate on SOUND rather than FEEL(and it has not felt good lately) I think I'm on the right track and I'm confident that I'll be fine, but it's been a discouraging week.
_________________
Tom W.
3C model 43
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ksievers
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2481

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tensions always show up in the breath, even if you think it's chops or something else. So take inventory of that - make sure things are not "engaged" before the sound starts, etc... and steer your thinking back into sound 100% with that (now) free air. energy in freedom... things get out of balance once in a while - no panic.

also, if you've been sick, esp bronchitis or such, make sure that inhale is FULL. that starts the whole thing in motion, and if the breath is less than full you can't be at your best.
_________________
Karl Sievers, DMA. Professor, School of Music, University of Oklahoma; Principal Trumpet, Oklahoma City Philharmonic; Bach Artist/Clinician; General Manager, National Trumpet Competition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
t.whitcombe@comcast.net



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Sterling, IL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Great advice. It is kind of hard to stay in the moment when your body isn't working right.
_________________
Tom W.
3C model 43
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gordomu



Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. S--It's been my experience that when my breathing is impaired (e.g., because of a cold, asthma, bronchitis, flu, rib injuries, etc.), everything else tenses up to compensate for it: My lips, tongue, throat, facial muscles, and even my hands, fingers and shoulders. Often, I don't realize it until the damage has been done, which is extraordinary fatigue in the parts of me that try to work harder--often too hard--to compensate for the impaired breathing and airflow. Does this make sense?
_________________
Murray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ksievers
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2481

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murray, sure it makes sense. That's why I mention it, so a) we don't panic, and b) we realize that all we have to do is go back to square one and relax/let go of the breath, and really take a bath in that imagined sound. Things start to balance out the moment we take care of those two things, which, with practice, become ONE thing. The more we ingrain that, the less vulnerable we become to those rough times too. It's a double pay-off. I tell my guys that any great player who says his chops are great 100% of the time is lying. It ain't true. EVERYBODY goes through these things, but the veteran who knows what to do keeps it simple and goes back to the "basic 2 things" when things get out of whack. No panic, fix it, things settle down.
_________________
Karl Sievers, DMA. Professor, School of Music, University of Oklahoma; Principal Trumpet, Oklahoma City Philharmonic; Bach Artist/Clinician; General Manager, National Trumpet Competition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
billybob



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't normally like to blame equipment for my failures but in this case, well... When I first brought up this topic I described how my playing took a nose dive after purchasing a Bach 180s43, but it eventually got back to "normal". That was just shy of a month ago. Then, about two weeks ago, something even more drastic happened: my playing just took off. I mean skyrocketed. I am doing things on this horn that I only dreamed about before. Things I struggled with for years are suddenly disappearing. For example: I always hear good players claim that playing in the upper register is just like playing in the middle. Well, all of a sudden - yep!

Granted, its not all the new equipment. I remember once Dr. Sievers said that just one hour with a great teacher will change your life. In my short time with him he showed me how to approach playing with a great sound. That's what has made the difference, for sure. So I'd like to express my gratitude to him publicly: thanks Dr. Sievers, you've changed my life.
_________________
Roy S. Bedlam Brass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
ksievers
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2481

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st, those kind words are very much appreciated (truly).

but let me make some other points... I'll speak 3rd person - certainly I know this man but let's keep it general.

This guy has a very high level of intelligence. that can be a blessing or a curse for an artist or for a student of any art. Too many "smart" people think too much. Sometimes a "B" level of intelligence (boy, that sound politically incorrect, sorry...) is able to take instruction simply and simply respond to it. Sometimes really bright people think themselves into a knot, and/or demand "logic" or demand to think of the myriad things going on while playing (the recipe for disaster). Great playing happens in the presence of a simple mind.. We must be "child-like." "Control" can become the enemy.

As Bill Adam says, "concentration is the result of a quiet mind," so you can NOT achieve this Zen-like state if you think too much.

This man came to me as an ideal student in that yes, he is exceedingly bright, but he put "self" completely out of the picture and received input and acted upon it with fairly blind trust. He was willing to say, "I'll really give this a good try" w/o 2nd guessing too much. And of course good things began to happen that moment, and it builds from there.

My message is, if you are going to go to the trouble to get good teaching and pay for it and all that, it is foolish to not "let go of self" - it is foolish to not be an "empty vessel" and simply receive. That is how you learn.

Finally, my teacher, Bill Adam has done more for me that I'll ever be able to measure, much less explain. And of course that has a ton to do with "non trumpet" things, as the person we are and the music we make are inseparable. Many times I have tried to thank him, verbally, in letters, and even with gifts. As much as I think he DOES "get it" and appreciates the thanks, he always says to me, "I didn't do anything, YOU did it." At first that was maddening, but of course what he says is true.

Similarly in the case of the (above) writer, a teacher can lead, can convey, etc., but the student does ALL of the work, the day-to-day, the discipline, the attitude, the patience, all of that.
_________________
Karl Sievers, DMA. Professor, School of Music, University of Oklahoma; Principal Trumpet, Oklahoma City Philharmonic; Bach Artist/Clinician; General Manager, National Trumpet Competition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
CanadaBHS



Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ksievers wrote:
1st, those kind words are very much appreciated (truly)...

Doc, you continue to be way too modest.

Reading your words in this thread, 2 metaphors come to mind. I don't believe I could write anything as eloquently as our moderator, but fortunately these words belong to others mith more insight than I have. No, they don't say anything more than Dr. K. has already said above and elsewhere but it may be helpful that they say it differently.

The first is from a very old TV series called "Kung Fu" (does that date me?). In reference to doing something way beyond "natural" the main character ("Kain" I think?) is asked "How did you do that?" After a suitable dramatic silence he replies... "It is not done; it is experienced."

The second is a musical reference to words in "Flashdance" (which also dates me). "Take your passion, and make it happen." I frequently remember this line wrong, but perhaps it is "better" this way. "...and let it happen".

Just let go... and let the experience happen. Brent.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Soundboard Forum Index -> Welcome to Trumpet Corner! All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group